Wednesday 27 June 2012

New League Management System

Today we're pleased to announce that the new League Management System is live and available for all clubs, counties and districts to use. We hope that this will greatly simplify the administration of league events, including dealing with team personnel, master points and pay-to-play charges. Some organisers already have very good systems in place to do this so we're not forcing anybody to switch, but we hope this service will be of some value.

The LMS works within our online members area, so you'll need a user name and password in order to use it. Clubs and counties have this already (if you don't, please check with the treasurer or scorer). What used to be called Districts, i.e. entities which run leagues but which are not affiliated clubs or counties, will need to request a user name and password from the EBU.

Once you're logged in you should now see an additional 'Leagues' tab in your members area. If you don't see it then you may still be looking at the old version of our members area and will need to clear your browser cache.



To create a new league, click the green plus icon and you'll be presented with some options.



Enter the league title, the number of divisions in the league and the promotion/relegation criteria and then click 'Submit'. Wait a few seconds and you should see something like this:



With the league set up, we now have to look at the individual divisions. To manage a division of a league, click on the line you're interested in. In this case, we'll click on Example League Division 1, which gets us here:



There are no teams in the league yet, so click on the green plus icon to add one:



Enter the team name and the captain's EBU number. You can also optionally enter a suffix, for example in a club league you could have Aylesbury A and Aylesbury B - 'A' and 'B' are the suffixes. Let's add some more:



When you're finished adding teams to the division, it's time to create some matches.

Important: make sure you've added all the teams before you create the matches. Once the matches are created you won't be able to add more teams.

Clicking the 'Create League Matches' button asks you if it's a single- or double- round robin i.e. if each team plays each other team once or twice. Submit your preference, wait a few seconds and the matches will be ready.

In an ideal world this is where the league administrator's involvement ends, at least until the end of the season. The team captains that you have designated are now able to log into their own Members Area to update their team information and submit match results. Of course, some captains will be either unable or unwilling to do this so there may be a need for some further intervention. The rest of our instructions are from a team captain's point of view, but the functionality is identical for the league administrator.

When a player logs on to their Members Area they'll see a button on the right-hand side if they're a part of any league:



Clicking this will bring up a table like this:



This shows the team name, the league it's a part of, whether or not you're the captain of the team and finally a shortcut to the league results table. If you're the captain you can click on the line to bring up some information about your team.



Under 'Player Roster' you can see the list of all the players registered for this team. You have been included by default, but if you're of the non-playing variety of captain you can remove yourself by clicking the small cross by your name. Under 'Matches' you can see a list of all the matches for this team for the season.

To add a player to the roster, click the green plus icon.



To amend the details of a match, click the appropriate line in the match list:



Enter as much information as you can and then check the boxes of the players who played for your team. This isn't final - you'll be able to go back and correct any mistakes or add some data which you left out.

Both captains will be able to amend the match data, but the team lineups can only be entered or changed by the captain of that team - after all, they're the ones who should know best who played!

Once a few results are in the table might look like this:



We can now see how this will look in the public results table:



This gets updated as soon as the results are in and will reconfigure itself according to the new ranking. You can see the real version here.

I don't see a feature I need!

There are dozens of different sorts of leagues being run across the country and I'm sure there's something you do which we can't do. If so, please let us know. We should be able to deal with most peculiarities, although some might be more work than others.

What about teams-of-eight leagues?

We don't enforce any limits on the number of players per team and it will work the same way for teams of four/six/eight/twelve/thiry-one! At the end of the season you'll be charged based on the number of people that play in the matches, so it's important that you record this correctly after every match.

What about knockout events?

These are on their way and will be available as another type of event when you use the 'Create New League' function.

There's no way I'll be able to get my captains to use your Members Area!

That's a shame. You could just make them do it, or make them pass the captaincy onto someone who's willing. It's really not very difficult once you've used it once. If they're steadfast in their refusal, though, then don't worry - the league administrator has the same abilities as the team captains. In the teams list page (where you see the 'Create League Matches' button) you can click on the team in question and then you'll be able to amend their players list and match results just as if you were them.

I have a question that's not covered!

Sigh... Drop us a line and we'll see if we can help you!

Your new system is a load of rubbish!

Perhaps it is! Let us know about it, though, and we might be able to do something. We're always keen to get feedback on new features like this.

56 comments:

  1. How would this handle something like the Eastern Counties League, an inter-county competition, especially concerning the initial set-up?

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    1. You'll have to contact us and ask for an EBU account and password. Once you're logged in it'll work just like for a county or a club. Drop ian@ebu.co.uk a line and he'll help you.

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  2. Thanks Michael,

    By the way, just logged into both my county and my club members pages and the 'League' tab is visible but there's no big green addition button!

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    1. Presumably you mean when you click on the League tab?

      Clear your cache, as described in the link way up at the top of this page. It sounds like your browser is looking at a combination of the old site and the new site.

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  3. Thanks Michael, that's worked. Will the correct MasterPoints be awarded in the leagues using this system, as the Eastern Counties League has green-points awarded for each match - which would mean that the number of boards would have to be recorded somewhere?
    And to be more of a nuisance, would it be possible to link the table produced to an existing Bridgewebs hosted site?

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    Replies
    1. Yes, it will calculate all the Master Points correctly, and you will have to tell it how many boards make up a match and what the MP scale is etc.

      As for the other point, I'm hoping to release some "widgets" at some future stage which external sites can embed and which will show league tables and so on. Whether BridgeWebs want to incorporate these is up to them, but they're most welcome to.

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    2. "Yes, it will calculate..."

      Ok, so where and how do you give it the information necessary to do that?

      It doesn't ask when creating matches, nor when entering results, and I don't see any buttons/clickable things that would cover this.

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  4. I'm that Bridgewebs will be more than happy to do this, as long as they are kept in the loop. Well done on all this, it looks very good and I'm looking forward to getting started with it asap.

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  5. What about the bottom division of a league that allows non-members (either of the league or the EBU)? Will this cope with those? And what if such a team's captain is also a non-member - presumably the onus on data-entry would shift back to the league organiser?

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    1. The team captain certainly needs to have an EBU record so that they can log in and manage their team. If they don't and nobody else is willing to do it then I suppose you'll just have to nominate yourself and then remove yourself from the newly created team.

      Team personnel also need to have EBU accounts, but I can see that there might be a need for a 'guest' option. They'll never get any master points if they choose that, though.

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    2. Surrey runs two leagues: the Surrey League (SL) and the Novice League (NL). The SL currently has 4 divisions, of which D2-4 are divided into a number of parallel sections on a geographic basis, and D4 allows entry to non-members of Surrey/EBU. The NL is divided into geographic sections, and also allows non-members.

      These arrangements were set up following MP&L Handbook guidance (so should hardly be peculiar!).

      SL D4 and the NL are there to encourage new players into the game (and to support a reasonably smooth skill gradient), hence the allowed non-member status (again, per MP&L HB), and many of our players in these are indeed not currently EBU members.

      The last thing we need to do is put barriers in the way of their full participation.

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    3. You can have an EBU record without being an EBU member - clubs call this a 'potential member' and they'll accrue master points which will be ready and waiting for them if they do decide to join. We're not stopping non-members from playing in leagues, just requiring that they have an EBU record if they want to earn master points (or captain a side).

      Don't worry - we have no intention of making things more difficult.

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    4. PS What about "Anonymous" members?

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    5. "You can have an EBU record without being an EBU member".

      Oh, if only Counties could do this...


      "they want to earn master points"

      In our experience, that's not a concern for most non-members. Once we have them addicted, then they might become interested.

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    6. Re: anonymous members, they can't captain a side but they can be added as members of a team. I've just updated the way it handles this so that it gives you the EBU number of the anonymous member. Now if you have more than one you can distinguish between them.

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  6. Ok, I've started to play via the Members Area, and a number of questions have quickly arisen:

    a) how do we deal with divisions divided into parallel sections (say geographically)?
    b) how do we set the start and end dates?
    c) what happens if the promotion and relegation numbers are different in each division (or optional at L.O. discretion)?
    d) how do we delete a league?
    e) how does a club/county delegate management to a league organiser without handing over the club/county credentials to the members area?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. a) see what I mean about unhandled peculiarities! I think this should be easy enough to sort out. For now, please set it up as an extra division, so if you have divisions 1, 2, 3A and 3B, set up a 4 division event. At some later stage I'll allow an option to go into 3 and 4 and change their name and settings like promotion/relegation.
      b) the system doesn't enforce playing dates. Perhaps it could, but I think this is a matter of local regulation rather than score-keeping.
      c) see (a)
      d) you can't, but if you want to have a play with the system and see how it works then feel free. Drop me a line when you're done and we'll get rid of it for you.
      e) you can't. The event is run by the club/county so the league organiser will have to have club/county access to administer it.

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    2. a) if we can't even name the things properly, I don't think we could use this live (player confusion galore).
      b) it wasn't a question of enforcement, but if we create a league that runs from September to May (say), and you have columns marked "Start Date" and "End Date", then I expect to be able to populate those sensibly (not with the date I create the record of the league and no end date at all). Otherwise, if the columns have no meaning, what was the point of putting them in?
      d) & e) You're kidding, right? (I really hope so)

      I'm sorry to be sounding negative, and I'm sure you've put in lots of wonderful work in building this, but it just seems like much of what I've raised ought to have been on page 1 of the spec (and it's not like any of it is tough stuff to do [unlike say master point calculations]).

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    3. a) like I said above, this'll be easy enough to sort out.
      b) they tell you when the league was created and when it's finalised, which might be of some use in future to manage a long list of past events.
      d) nope. It's too scary to allow people to delete an entire league's worth of data and is far more likely to lead to catastrophe than be of any use. I appreciate that some of you might want to fiddle with the system while it's new, and you're welcome to, but we'll have to delete it at our end when you're done.

      Feel free to sound negative, but please bear in mind this has been out for one day! There may well be a few things we've overlooked, but if they're important they'll be in soon.

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  7. Two points. We require team entries by end of August, but we will have teams (probably 2) from Southampton University, but will not know definitely until about the middle of October, by which time the schedules have been drawn up and the matches started. I notice we cannot increase the number of teams. Any comments?
    Secondly, the number of teams to be promoted or relegated is nominally 2 but varies according to my discretion. Occasionally teams don't want to move up or the number of teams in the new season differs substantially from the old season and moving 2 is unrealistic. There might also be occasions when we move from 3 to 2 divisions or vice versa and the number promoted or relegated is dependent on the new league structure. Comments please. Ian Fearon

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    1. Hmm, good question. You can't add teams to a league once it's started. Let me think about what would be involved in changing this.

      The promotion/relegation settings don't lock you in for next season - you can always just start again. I intend to add some shortcut options before next year to help admins set up the new season more quickly based on the old season, but you won't be forced to use them.

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  8. Michael,
    I am unable to get the League button either through my personal login or through my club.
    As far as I am aware, the cache is clear.
    Got any further suggestions ?
    Alan

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    Replies
    1. Please contact me privately with details of your operating system and browser version. I can't really deal with individual problems in a blog comments forum.

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  9. Will this be a free service?

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    Replies
    1. Well, you have to pay the P2P charges of course, but the software is free to use.

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  10. You don't seem to be able to specify whether a match is home or away; the system decides and its likely to be wrong!
    Would be nice to be able to pre-fill the dates to match the published schedule; there seems to be a glitch there somehere.
    For many of our teams in the Yorkshire League captains can change on a match-by-match basis; this could be a bit of an issue...

    ReplyDelete
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    1. It decides home/away randomly, which some leagues might prefer, but I'm going to add the ability for the league admin to swap home/away.

      By "captain" we don't necessarily mean the person who captains the team on the day and who makes sure his players are sitting in the right places and deals with appeals etc. - it's really just a designated manager who looks after the team roster and submits the results. You can be the captain but not play in the match.

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  11. Hi Michael

    Looks good well done.

    How do we change a captain?

    Cheers

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    1. Thanks Darren. I'm adding some extra options to change some settings after league/team creation and that'll be live in the next couple of days. Look out for a cog button on the relevant screen.

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  12. Would it be possible to have a captain and a vice-captain either of whom could do the necessary?

    BTW thanks for doing this; it will potentially save me a great deal of time (and typing).
    I currently do the Master Points submisisons for the Yorkshire League. 11 divisions of 8 teams each of 8 players x 7 matches each. Some teams manage to field over 20 players during the course of the season!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Ian. Now I need to check to see if a list of 20 players will spill off the bottom of the screen! :-)

      Regarding multiple captains, it's a good thought. Not possible right now, but I don't see why this shouldn't be a future feature.

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    2. Yes Ian, that would be a useful development.

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  13. I set up the county teams of 8 league. I start off with a lot of constraints; some clubs have to play their A and B team matches together at home (or both away), some clubs can only accommodate so many at home and so many away if they are limited for space, one club has their club room booked a year in advance on specific nights (a tablet of stone which cannot be changed) so they have to go in the programme first. Will the programme manage all this for me?

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    1. The system doesn't manage fixtures. That might come in future, but one step at a time. Currently all it knows is that team A will have to play team B at some point in the season - the team captains or the league administrator can fill in the date when the match is played (or in advance).

      If you want to tell teams that they must play on specific dates then that's up to you but we don't get involved.

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    2. I see. Thanks Michael. I think it will save a lot of work when it comes to entering up the results though.

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  14. I assume there is no problem with a player appearing for more than one team over the course of the season...

    I am going to recommend that we adopt this system for the YCBA leagues, I will manage any glitches as and when.

    It would be no more difficult for me to type the matches into the EBU system rather than into my own Excel solution (as a last resort!).

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    Replies
    1. Indeed. A player can play for any number of teams, even within the same league. If that breaks the league rules then that's for the league administrator to enforce. Hopefully by the end of the season we'll offer some utilities to make it easier for LAs to check up on this sort of thing.

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  15. Michael,

    Can we have a dummy run, i.e. input to see how things work and then delete everything?

    John

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    Replies
    1. Please go ahead. Just email me when you're done and I'll get rid of it for you.

      Delete
  16. Michael
    A quick read of this implies that each team captain has to log in to enter their players in a match. Please tell me I'm wrong. I can see getting one member of a team to enter the result and all team members (we already do this for Surrey), but to get both teams to enter details seems too difficult.
    Julia

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    1. That's correct. I think it's a recipe for problems if you ask a captain to enter the details of the players in the other team. He often won't know who he's just played so will get things wrong and cause headaches later on. He also won't be able to add new players to the opposing team if they haven't been added to the squad yet.

      Note that the result will be updated on the league table as soon as that goes in - the other captain can enter their team details much later if they prefer, without delaying things.

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    2. OK. I think that will make it too difficult for us to use. The system we have at the moment allows whomever enters the result to add players to either team as well as putting in the result. We have found that since the captain of the winning team knows he has to enter this information they collect it on the day. Allowing people to leave entering details until later sounds to me like a recipe for disaster. They will 1) forget to do it or 2) forget who was playing. And, I believe that you need to know who was playing in case anyone is eligible for placement points - win or lose a specific match. So that would mean that you cannot generate masterpoints until you know all the team members in every team.

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  17. What happens when we need to add an adjusted score for an unplayed match? There would be no players to list, no points to be credited and no P2P. Can we just enter the two names of the teams and the adjusted score with no other details?

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    1. Good question. My original thought was that you'd enter the score and leave the players blank, but this is incompatible with handling non-members by leaving them out (as you want to be charged for the latter but not the former). I think we need to add a check-box saying that the match wasn't played and that the score is artificial. Look out for this in a future update.

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  18. Will it be possible to put links from the county website to the league tables so that nonplayers can view them?

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    1. Certainly. Each table has its own unique URL so get your county web master to link directly to that.

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  19. Are scores submitted in IMPs and VPs or is the conversion to VPs done automatically?
    If so what scale is used? Does it have to be 0-20 or can it be 0-12?

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    1. No, you put in both the IMPs and VPs. We figured there were just too many different VP scales floating around that we couldn't easily cover them all. Allowing you to enter any number also gives you the flexibility to handle adjusted scores and fines etc. without any effort.

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  20. Michael,
    Apologies if you have dealt with this already - Are you supplying a simple set of instructions for entering results that league organisers can pass on to team captains?
    Cheers
    John Baxter

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  21. Hi Michael,

    I'm just setting up the Wiltshire Leagues, and have a couple of questions. Apologies if you've already answered, but I cannot see them:

    1. All of our leagues play on fixed dates, and two of them have an odd number of teams, so all teams will have a bye at some stage in the season. Is it possible to 'score' the bye as (e.g.) 13 VPs so that the league tables are more realistic?

    2. One of the leagues has 7 teams, and we will have 10 rounds. The plan is that there will be a round robin for the first 7 matches (all teams having a bye), and then the top 4 and bottom 3 will each have an all-play-all mini-league. How can we manage this, both in terms of the league and to manage master points?

    Thanks,
    Richard

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    Replies
    1. 1. You can't. But the league tables do sort by average VPs, not total VPs, so this should hopefully not be necessary.

      2. An interesting one. I suppose you could set it up as a double round-robin and just not play all of it. The display might not be the most informative but it should sort out master points and so on.

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  22. Hi Michael,

    I'm setting up the league for South Devon, 2 divisions, 7 teams in each this season. Each round is played on a fixed date at the same venue, so all teams are present (except those who have byes).

    I have a complete set of software to run the league, including posting the results onto the internet within 10 minutes of receiving the results sheets - so I'm using the EBU software for Master Points and P2P charges only. Consequently I don't wish team captains to have access to update their own results, so I'm setting myself up as a (non-playing) captain for each team.

    First problem - if I set up the "real" captain when I create a team, then change the captain's EBU number to my own, there's no obvious problem - I don't appear in the player list for the team. However, if I set up the team with my own EBU number as captain I can't delete myself from the team's player list! I am forced to transfer the captaincy to someone else (e.g. the "real" captain) and only then I can delete myself from the player list and then go back and transfer the captaincy back to myself. Seems illogical.

    Second problem - when putting in the dates of the fixtures for each team (in advance) I am forced to close the team dialogue box and re-open it after putting in each date, otherwise I get an error message saying "Could not update this match as the league has been completed". Somewhat confusing at first - it needs a warning along the lines "please close the team window and re-open it before entering details of another match".

    Paul Ainsworth

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  23. I have just become aware of the fact that our league is now using this site for recording our results. However I was puzzled when looking at the results for Northamtonshire div 2 which shows Stamford A at the top with 84 VPs and Wellingborough A in second place on 87 VPs. Why is this?

    Mick Aldridge

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  24. Michael,

    I played in my first team match in Kent League last night. How many masterpoints do the winning team get?

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    1. It really depends on how the league is set up and which division you played in. The Masterpoints Handbook will tell you (https://www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/licensing/master-points-handbook-2014.pdf, about page 33) but it's pretty boring!

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